Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the podcast. I have a special episode for you today. So, this week I started working with a new client, a private coaching client. And one of the things she said to me is something I hear all the time. And that was, I know this stuff. I have read it. Everything about emotional eating and overeating.

I love your podcast. I listened to the episodes of your podcast. I have all this information in my head. I’ve worked with other people and yet I can’t figure out how to bridge this disconnect between what I know and what makes sense to me and what I’ve learned. And what I need to do in my own life to create peace with food and freedom from overeating and to stop the overeating and the emotional eating and, and to just get on with things.

These concepts and these strategies that I talk about, they sound really good, but figuring out what they actually look like and how to put them into place and what this mythical, it’s not mythical, but it feels mythical peace with food, right? What, what does that really look like? And how does that play out in somebody’s life?

These are questions that are really hard to answer if you haven’t been there. And so that’s why I’m so excited about today’s episode. Wendy is someone who worked with me in my, Your Missing Peace program about a year ago, actually a little bit over a year ago. And I crossed paths with her recently and heard a little bit about how she was doing.

And one of the things that impressed me so much was her ability to describe and talk about the big changes that have occurred in her life, what it has felt like, what it has looked like and really what peace with food and freedom from overeating mean for her. And so, I asked her to come on the podcast and have a conversation.

And that is what I have for you today. This is a bit of a longer episode, but I think you will find it well worth it. So, without further ado, let’s dive in to my conversation with Wendy.

Melissa: So, one of the things that. I get so many questions about, and I think even beyond the questions that I get, one of the things that there is so much confusion about is this whole idea of what change looks like if you aren’t dieting, if you aren’t following some kind of rigid food plan. So when I talk to people about, for instance, the missing peace program, there is, there is An idea that it sounds really good, but what does it actually look like?

What will it look like for me? Peace with food sounds really good, or changing my relationship with food sounds kind of really vague. And Wendy, one of the reasons I thought it’d be great to have this conversation, as I just told you before we started, is that I think you have this amazing ability to put into words what change is.

Wendy: has felt like for you and you’ve had a pretty cool experience of applying this process. So let’s just, what can you tell people about how you came to the program? And what do you want people to know about where you were at, at the very beginning of this? I think the thing that resonated with me about the program and the reason that I ultimately decided to do it was because. I was so tired of battling myself. I was so tired of feeling like food had this outsized influence in my life. Like it was, it was too big a piece of my life. I think I, I shared with you, you know, at one point after working together for many months, but I, went on a trip for work and I didn’t think the entire time I didn’t think like, where am I going to eat my next meal?

How much food do I need in my hotel? Like, I would actually plan my trip around, like, I have to get the right amount of food in my hotel room, the right kind of food. I have to you know, which restaurants am I going to try if I’m going to be in this new town? Like, Food was just this disproportionate amount of energy in my life.

And I wanted, I remember articulating it this way that I wanted a life that was about more than food. And it wasn’t like my life was only about food, but it just felt like it was too much about food. And, and I didn’t want it to be, it was a disproportional relationship and I didn’t want it to be that way.

And I was always at war with myself, right? Because I’m always, you know, I ate something wrong or I did good today or You know, just that back and forth with how I felt about myself. And when I, when I started looking into the program I was doing fine. But, but I think right around the time that I actually committed and, and, and started it, I actually developed a really serious health condition.

And I ended up quite sick during most of the time that we were working together. And. It was so interesting. I mean, I think we talked initially about maybe I should just wait. I was very sick. And, and I was worried about trying to navigate the two things at the same time, but in hindsight, I’m really glad actually that I did because I’m so motivated, right?

Like even more motivated than I would have already been to really be as healthy as I could.

Melissa: I think it would have been okay if I would have said, I just need to focus on this and I’ll, I’ll circle back, but for, you know, for a variety of reasons I moved forward and it did end up being a really good thing because I was, I was so motivated to focus on all my health.

Wendy: So not just physical health so that I can get through surgery and, you know, be physically healthy, but being emotionally healthy, being mentally healthy, which so much of the Your Missing Peace program is about self-awareness and mindfulness. And so really drilling in and paying such close attention to how I feel about things, how I feel about my body, how I feel about the food.

How I feel about the choices that I make throughout the day. In some ways I think it was almost magnified doing it while I was so sick.

Melissa: So, there are people listening who are thinking, so it’s about self-awareness, it’s about mindfulness. It’s about how you feel. What did that have to do?

With food and eating and weight and all of those things. How did, how do you think, how do you see those pieces as coming together for you?

Wendy: Oh, well, first let me address an implied question there, which is why couldn’t I just go learn more about mindfulness and self-awareness and. You know, without doing this whole program, because I thought about that a little bit and one thing that has blown me away about the program and about working with you is there, there was something so powerful about working with someone who has made it their life’s mission to understand this piece.

And, you know, one of the things that you talk about on your website and that comes up in, you know, regularly in the, in the meetings is. These, you know, busy, successful women, you know, these women, you knew me, you know, and, and I, every single time that we had a call, whether it was a group coaching call or individual call, every time I would walk away just thinking, oh my gosh, she knows, she knows me.

She knows this, this discipline. She knows this. And being able to bring all of that together, there is no possible way that just reading a book about mindfulness would have, because so many of the things that I struggled with were unique to being high achieving and to, you know, being used to success in other areas of my life.

And, and I just, you got all that. Not just get it on an intuitive emotional level, but, you know, actually the professional background and the, the knowledge that you brought to that, I felt like I was in such good hands and that, and that there wasn’t anyone better that I could, I’m really big on like, you know, turn to the experts.

I felt like I had the expert right there, but I know that’s not the question you asked, but I feel like it’s an important question because it is fair to say, well, if it’s just about mindful eating, then, you know, be more mindful when you eat. It’s so much more than that.

Melissa: I think a lot of advice. Sounds very simple, like pay attention when you eat, be mindful when you eat, right?

It sounds like anybody should be able to do it. And yet it is, there’s so many nuances and it is so complicated. And for somebody who is high achieving, who is used to getting results, when somebody, and I’ll say this for myself, when somebody puts something like that in front of me, it’s. That looks like it should be so obvious.

There is nothing more frustrating than feeling like you have all the information and you can’t somehow apply it in a way that makes it work to your life. And I saw that with you when we started working together, right? Cause you, you know how to solve problems.

Wendy: And I think most women who come to you are in that place. I’m like, I solve everything everywhere else in my life. Why is this such a nightmare? Why is this such an ongoing battle? And again, in order to drill down and get to the bottom in order to solve that problem, you have to have someone who really understands that problem.

Melissa: So how did starting to pay more attention to yourself and the mindfulness piece and how you took care of yourself? How did you see that starting to shift how you dealt with food or what changed with your eating? I know that’s a big question.

Wendy: So, one of the things that I noticed early on, and I still noticed it to this day was that I don’t feel good when I eat too much.

And I know that sounds really, really, really basic, but when you’ve been using food to alleviate boredom or because you’re tired or because you’re frustrated or upset, you know, if food has become other things to you, You, you really don’t even pay attention to your body’s physical cues. I definitely didn’t.

And so even if I ate, you know, till I was just way overstuffed, it didn’t really dawn on me often. Oh, I’m not feeling physically very good now. It was, I don’t even know how to describe it other than just so being so disconnected and out of tune with my own body. And at this point, I mean, it’s been a year and a half, maybe since we started working together.

I mean, if I even overeat by just a small amount, I, I immediately noticed and I’m like, oh, I don’t feel good. I should have stopped, you know, a little earlier and it’s not should have in a, I’m beating myself up way. It’s, it’s more like in a noticing way of like, oh, you know what? I actually was full a few bites ago and I kept going and I don’t like this feeling now.

And I can truly say that for most of my life, I just did not ever notice when I was full. And, and, and equate that with an unpleasant feeling. So that was one of the first things I also started to notice right away that, you know, certain foods didn’t make me feel as good, which again, I’d never paid attention to before.

I would notice if it tasted good, but I wouldn’t necessarily make a correlation of, you know, Wow. If I ate half that bag of chips now, I feel kind of yuck. It was just, I wanted the half a bag of chips. They tasted good. So I ate them.

Melissa: It’s so interesting how our, our brains will filter that out. So many people will say, oh my God, I love, you know, eating, eating the chips.

That’s my treat. That’s the best thing at the end of the day. And then your brain doesn’t even, your brain, I’m not saying you’re specifically our brains, but. Yeah. Yeah. They don’t even register the negative parts of that, right? Like the gastric reflux and the, and, and it does take some mindfulness to tune into that.

And

Wendy: once I started doing that, then it was easier to become aware of like, how good it feels when I move my body. So that made exercise seem more like a treat and less like something that I had to do. You know, and also you’re so big on getting curious, you’re right. And, and just being in that place of curiosity instead of that place of judgment.

And so even like with movement and with exercise to step outside of the shame zone of the, Oh, well, I have to do this because I have to lose weight and I have to, you know, build muscle and all those shoulds and has to, to move into a space of, Wait a minute. There are types of movement that feel really good, that make me feel good.

I feel good in the moment. I feel good after I do it. So instead of these shoulds, what if I just try to identify those things that make me feel really good and I do more of them? If going for a walk feels good, then let’s put more walks and you know, if I, if doing yoga and I love y yoga, the slow deep stretching, oh, love that so much.

If I like that, then okay, how am I going to do more Yan Yoga in my life? So, it really. I don’t know. It’s just such a shift right of, of now this is a treat. This is a joy and a pleasure in my life. And part of that is giving myself permission to have that joy and that pleasure in my life,

Melissa: which is huge. So, one of the things people don’t know is that.

It has been over a year since you were in the program. It’s been and when we talked a couple of months ago, it had been a year. So, I had reached out to you and I had no idea how you were doing. I think it’s fair to say that that the changes that you’re talking about now feel pretty solid.

Wendy: I was telling a friend of mine about this program a few days ago, a week ago, maybe 2 weeks ago. And I said, I know this is going to sound like hyperbole, but I would say it was life changing. And I don’t say that lightly because I think that’s something people throw around. But for me, it was life changing because I’ve now had over a year to see.

That everything is still there, right? Like I continue, I continue to, to slowly lose weight. I’ve definitely maintained. I did not regain any, any weight. Although I also don’t step on the scale very often, you know, just every few months because it doesn’t rule my life. It’s not my focus anymore. But when I say life changing, I mean, food just does not have this major role in my life anymore.

 it’s a fun part of my life. I, I still consider myself a foodie. I love to check out, new restaurants. But I don’t give it any more headspace than it needs. It feels proportional now. Like it’s just a part of my life. It’s not a consuming part of my life. And. I’m much, I don’t know if I would say I, I’m happier with my body because I was in a pretty good place with my body before, but I’m, I’m more tuned in like things like the movement, the physical fitness, the, the making time to take care of myself I’m aware that I, I pay closer attention to when I need to sleep and when I need to rest and when I need to move.

So even what another thing I’ve noticed is that again, because I’m, I’m more aware, I need to get up and move at work. I can’t sit in front of my desk all the time. And I used to, I could go for hours just locked in front of my screen. I can’t do that anymore because I know that my body wants to move. I need to get up and stretch.

I need to go for a walk. I need to do something. So, I know it sounds like an exaggeration to say life changing, but that is really how I feel. I’m not the same person and I’m, I’m, I’m happier with where I’m at. I

Melissa: think that one of the reasons it’s really hard to take in a word like life changing is that, especially when it comes to eating and weight, and I think this comes down a lot to diet culture and diet mentality, we have been taught that life changing means you must have done something so brutally hard or so dramatic, right?

You, it’s like you trained for an iron man or something. That is how you get to life changing. And yet when you describe the shifts, they’re not easy to make. I mean, they take time to do, but these are simple changes. Right. I mean, is that accurate?

Wendy: Yeah. I think so. I think maybe another reason too, that we, we get nervous with the term life changing is that we want visible evidence of that.

So I, you know, we want to see the magazine cover with the people who lost more than a hundred pounds and look at the before and after and say, oh, clearly life changing. And That’s not my measure of success for, for this.

I’m happy with, with the weight that I’ve lost in the health that I’ve gained. I feel like diet alone is probably the healthiest it’s ever been in my life because I’m so attuned to what nourishes me you know, what feels good to eat. So I’m, I’m happy with those results, but if someone’s looking for the dramatic, you know, 150 pounds ago kind of picture, they’re not going to see that.

Melissa: Well, what I think And, and this is, I hadn’t put it into words before, but this is one of the reasons I thought there would, this would be such a valuable conversation because yes, we’ve been taught to look for these before and after pictures, you know, thin thighs and 30 days and that kind of thing.

But what I hear from you when I talk to you is this aspect of achieving your goals. Doing it in a way that feels like you and not this like efforting struggle kind of thing, but even more so. And this was really apparent to me when I talked to you a year after we worked together. Is this really, and tell me if I’ve, I’ve heard it wrong, but it’s this kind of rock-solid confidence that you know what you’re doing and that you have a relationship with food and also with your body that you feel good about and that you’re going to be able to Continue to, to pivot or, you know, deal with what life throws at you and you’re in charge again.

Wendy: Yeah, I think that’s exactly, that’s exactly right.

Melissa: it just comes across so clearly that you feel like you are, you’re in charge, that you’re not trying to do a long list of shoulds or to dos, but that you’re making the decisions and they feel right for you.

And I just want to check with you to see if I’m describing that.

Wendy: The strength, I think, of the Missing People program is that it does focus so much on empowering you to make your own choices, to ask yourself those questions, to be curious, to figure things out. And so I, you know, armed you with tools. And you’re exactly right, I still have all of those tools.

And that could have even been another silver lining of going through it all when I was so sick, because Part of that confidence is, you know what, if I could do all of that when I was that sick, doing it now is a piece of cake. I feel like I’m getting curious about what I want to eat. That,

Melissa: you know, challenging times are when overeating challenges tend to be the worst.

And yet I think a lot of times people want to get things all lined up for the perfect time to start to make changes or the perfect time to start a new way of eating or the perfect time to start a new workout plan. But really. Resilience is when you have something that works for you through all the stuff and all the crap that life throws at you.

That’s when we need it the most, right?

Wendy: And we also practice, right? Because if you try to do your Your Missing Peace and do it perfectly, you fall on your face because that’s part of diet culture, right? Is, is you either do it or you don’t. And this whole different approach of getting curious and figuring out you, like, why do you do the things you do?

What are your other options? That’s, that’s the opposite. That, that allows for you to learn. And I’m intentionally not saying make mistakes or fail. I’m saying learn because that’s so much a part of, I felt like it, that was almost daily for me. And, and well, it still is because it goes beyond food, right?

It goes beyond body issues. It’s anything, right? If my relationship with my son is. Not where I want it to be. I can freak out or I can get curious.

Melissa: Yeah. If you have a bad day with food, bad in air quotes, you can freak out and you can, you know as many do eat everything in the refrigerator, cause it’s all ruined, or you can get curious and figure out, okay, why did this happen?

And where do I go from here? And I think that one of the. I think this is my opinion, but, but one of the valuable pieces of the program is having a structure that keeps pulling you out of perfectionism and keeps reminding you that, of course, you didn’t get it. Perfect. You’re a human being.

Wendy: on that note, though, and I hadn’t really put it together until just now, but, you know, I said a minute ago that I’m happier than I was.

So again, I would say life changing because if I’m happier and, and I mean, consistently happier through bad days and whatever I think that it is partly because I am more intentional about sleeping and more intentional about eating healthy foods. I, in other words, I’m taking better care of myself. And so that went far beyond my relationship with food that goes to you know, just taking more time and more intention in what do I need, what am I feeling right now?

I unequivocally, I would say I am taking better care of myself for so many years. And I think, again, this goes with the high achieving and the busy, busy, busy, I would sacrifice sleep. I would sacrifice rest. I would not tune into how I was feeling if it was a stressful day at work. You know, I still remember many years ago.

A boss of mine, we’ve gone through some hard things that day, and he said it was like three o’clock in the afternoon, he said. I am just beat; this took everything out of me. I’m going to call it a day and go home. And I was so stunned. I’m like, that’s an option. You can just like, notice that you’re not, that you’ve had enough and you’re, it was the stress was you’re done.

I was blind blown, you know? So when I say happier, I mean, I mean, you know, again, far, far beyond food, far beyond. It’s just, it’s like, I know how to check in with myself. I know how to. Say, wow, wait a minute, you know what, you’re feeling this way because you’re tired, didn’t get a lot of sleep last night, or no wonder you’re starting to get a little cranky, there were multiple things that were stressful, you know, at work today, and they’ve kind of piled up.

Whereas I would just power through, I would just shut down those, those, you know, sensors going off and just keep powering through

Melissa: and food helped you do that. I told myself it helps me do that. Well, it was a coping. I mean, that’s for some people, lots of people that’s is the way of shutting down, or that is the way of getting a little burst of energy or ignoring that you’re tired or rewarding yourself, even though you’re miserable.

It’s a really. It can be a really seductive habit, and it is really easy if you are somebody who expects a lot of yourself to use food to fill in the cracks to keep going

Wendy: and part of the mindfulness, at least for me, I don’t think this is true for everyone, but part of mindfulness was realizing that.

Sometimes I was falling for the lure of food and it wasn’t really the easy solution going out to pick up fast food is actually not faster than just grabbing something healthy, but I would tell myself that it was and so mindfulness and being intentional was part of me figuring those things out, you know, saying, well, wait a minute.

If I’m trying to save time and take care of myself, why would a hamburger, you know, 15 minutes away be the good solution to that? But I never asked. Yeah. The

Melissa: stories that get going in our head are really easy to just they can operate so easily on autopilot if you don’t have a way of deconstructing them or taking a look at them and getting curious, my favorite word, right.

Getting curious about it.

Wendy: It feels good. Physically mentally, emotionally. When you’re meeting your actual need, not what, you know, the easy fix might be go grab a hamburger, which isn’t going to actually meet your needs, you know, then you’re still going to be feeling all the stress, all the tiredness. But when you take the time to just sit for a minute and say,

You know what? I want to go for a walk before dinner. And then I want to snuggle with my kids and just be silly with them for a little bit. I think that’s what would really make me feel better. And when I do that, when I take the time to do those things, which really just, I mean, it doesn’t, it’s not any more time or effort than driving to get the hamburger, but when I do those things, then I actually do feel better all the way better, you know, deep down to my soul better.

Melissa: So what do you, I was going to say, what do you wish, but you don’t have to wish you can do it. If somebody is listening, who is. In a place like you were or similar who has lots of stuff going on, because this was not a quiet time in your life when you did the program on top of, I mean, you had this major health issue, but you also had a lot going on in your life.

So if somebody is listening, who has a lot going on or feels overwhelmed with, with their relationship with food, who is smart, who has tried all the things. Who can write a book on what they think they should be doing and is so mad at themselves because they’re not doing it. Are there one or a few things that you would like to tell them or you would like them to hear?

Wendy: I think one thing that you might not expect, because especially if you’ve been heavily in diet culture, which is, and you’ve had a lot of shame around your body, around eating, around food choices, you might not be prepared for the safety.

And I, the word that’s coming to mind is like the haven that you’ll find in doing this program. When you come into the coaching calls, when you do your worksheet. It’s not another thing on the to do list. It’s not another stress or another way that you’re going to be shamed. It’s, it’s a

pause. It’s, it’s like this little.

You know, bubble of self-care, and it’s hard to put into words if, if, again, if you’re so embedded with the shame part of, of diet mentality, but it’s different. And so the anxiety, because I remember thinking like, oh, am I going to invest, invest money in this program? And it’s not going to work again, you know, just like anything else, or it’s going to work a little bit like some things I’ve tried.

But again, it’s, this is just in a completely different space I’m trying to find the right words, but it just puts you in a different place emotionally, which is a safe place and it’s a positive place. And so this isn’t going to feel like other programs that you’ve tried, you know, where your success is measured each week by the number on the scale or, yeah, I feel like I’m not doing a very good job articulating what I’m feeling.

Thinking, but it just it’s going to feel different and that difference is really

Melissa: Is  there a moment that you can point to. When you thought, oh, this is, this could work for me, or it is working for me.

Wendy: Interesting question. I mean, I thought it could work for me before I even signed up, right. You know, cause I, I think I listened to some of your podcast episodes and they resonated and I was, oh, maybe, maybe this is, you know, where it, because again, I wasn’t motivated so much by, I want to lose weight as it was, I’m just so tired of battling myself.

I’m so tired of food having this disproportionate role. So, you know, what was resonating with me was. That this didn’t seem to be like, well, wait, you’ll, you’ll weigh in every week and, you know, keep track of your progress. So I, I did feel pretty optimistic before I started that it was going to be effective.

I also was open though, on how I measured effectiveness, because if the goal was to have a better relationship with food, then, you know, even a small improvement would still have been a big win for me after a lifetime of struggling with that. So I felt like I came in with kind of open expectations. As far as actually being in the program and then having like a moment where I, you know what there was, I don’t remember how far into the program I was, but I think we might have even talked about this.

I was working, I was in a pretty intense job at the time and I had a lot of meetings back-to-back all the time and I would regularly skip meals. And which actually that’s been a story of my life for a lot of years to skip lunch, especially, and I was working and I, and I had meetings that day, but I had this little window between like 1130 and 12.

And I thought I should go get some food right now, because this is my window, but of course there were emails that needed to be sent and there were things to do, but then I have, I think I have like four hours back-to-back meetings after that. And so I knew like, that was my window. But I thought, no, I’ll just, I’ll hurry and finish one email first.

And so I started writing the email and all of a sudden, I, it just hit me. I wasn’t going to go get food. I knew myself. I was going to find another email right up until the next meeting and four or five o’clock in the afternoon. I was going to be starving and really hungry and I wasn’t going to feel very good physically.

And I probably eat things I didn’t want to eat and. You know, maybe too much of them. I could just see it all playing out. Right. Cause that had happened for years and years and years. And all of a sudden it just hit me that I did not trust myself that if I said I’m going to eat when I’m hungry, I knew I was lying.

I did not trust myself to feed myself this basic, basic human need. So many years of ignoring, you know, physical signals, whether it was eating too much and not realizing I was full or not eating when I was hungry. I had taught myself that I couldn’t be trusted, that I would not take care of myself in that really basic way.

And that just hit me so hard. I don’t know why it hit me so hard right then. But I, I just remember thinking, I want to trust myself. I want to be someone that I can trust. And so whatever I need to do, and for, especially at that point, it felt super drastic. Like prioritizing that I’m going to eat lunch, no matter what that felt like such a huge drastic change.

Like I have to put a calendar alert. I have to block out time on my schedule. I have to keep it sacred, not let people take that time. I have to plan ahead in some cases, like know that there’s going to be a sandwich in my lunch bag or, you know, but I will do it. I will do whatever I have to do so that I can trust myself.

To know that I will take care of my, and I did the same thing with sleep. I mean, I have six kids, I raised them mostly as a single mom, you know, so I was just in this mindset of like sleep, what’s sleep. And so to say, I trust myself to go to bed early and make sure I get enough sleep. That was, that just felt so wildly like, who does that?

Who gives themselves the gift of enough sleep? But I was so committed and that was, I think that was the moment when I knew things were definitely going to change because I, I just never wanted to go back to being that person that I couldn’t trust.

Melissa: Oh, that’s so good. When you bring this up. I remember that.

I mean, I remember and it’s like. What, what a great explanation. What does self-trust have to do with your relationship with food? What does taking care of yourself have to do with your relationship with food? Everything, everything, right?

Wendy: So often, and I’m talking to the busy, successful women, right? So often self-care is to get a pedicure or get a massage.

And those are wonderful. I love them. But that was a game changer for me in realizing I wasn’t taking care of myself at the most basic levels. And so of course I was struggling with weight and of course I was unhappy with my body and had this disordered relationship with food because I couldn’t trust myself to just eat when I was hungry or go to sleep when I was tired.

And that is self-care at its most basic.

Melissa: And as a mother of six kids, self-care that, you know, how absolutely how to implement for other people, right? You do it in your sleep. You do it in your sleep or when you should be sleeping. Oh, Wendy, this is so good. Thank you. Is there anything else you want to share or say, before we wind things up?

Wendy: I think this just goes back to you know, again, like this life changing where I was a year and a half ago versus right now, there have been so many moments over the last few months. That it has just hit me how, what, what a healthier, better relationship I have with food again in that like proportional impact in my life.

And what I really, I think what I really want to, to share is. That by, by putting food in a, in a more healthy role in my life, you know, a smaller part of my life, it has opened the door for so many other fulfilling and wonderful things to be in my life. And that’s what I wanted. I wasn’t trying to eliminate food.

I wanted to make space. For all these other things. And as I look at, like, just day to day, when I get up in the morning, what gets me excited? What am I, you know, what do I look forward to doing when I, at the end of the day, when I’m looking back and saying what was good about today? Occasionally their food might be and they’re like, oh, I had such a fun time having lunch with my friends and that salad was really yummy.

Because again, food, food is a part of my life and it’s a good fun part of my life, but 90 percent of the time, maybe 95 percent of the time. All those things that I’m excited about that gave meaning and purpose are how much better, how much better than, than what I ate for lunch and that’s where I wanted to be.

So that’s really my marker of success. Like what I was hoping to get. I do have a life that is so much more fun and exciting than food. I love that.

Melissa: I think that’s a perfect place to stop. That’s so good. Thank you so much for giving your time and your energy to this. I really appreciate it.